In response to the Retropolitan
Due to the 1000 character limit of Haloscan (would have been nice to know about that before putting it in), I'm going to post my response to issues raised in the comments of my previous post. I must first thank the Retropolitan for stimulating my thinking and making me dig deep for answers to the questions posed to me. It would be easy simply to blow off someone that questions your beliefs or to get defensive. Harder to look inside yourself for answers when hard questions are asked of you. I also want to thank him for the civil debate. It is also too easy to simply brand someone a fanatic instead of listening.
The first issue brought up was concerning prayer. I understand there are some versions of Chritianity that believe in healing only through prayer, to the point of withholding life saving procedures/medicines. I feel sorry for those that do believe this. They are taking some passages from the Old Testement far to literally and needlessly endangering themselves and thier family. I find the Old Testement difficult at times in that some of the passages, especially when it comes to rules and regulations, really were meant for a specific time and people. They discuss some pretty detailed things down to how many animals you must compensate someone for killing their bull, etc. Getting to the meaning behind the rules instead of blindly following them is difficult. But that's another discussion. The official Catholic position is that prayer is in addition to, not a supplement for, modern living. In other words, there is no prohibition to living in the world and making oneself available to modern conveniences, including medicine. There are ethical issues to struggle with, cloning, abortion, euthenasia, etc. The Catholic Church teaches that life is to be respected and all of your actions should be consistant with a respect for life. There is no need to sacrifice just for the sake of sacrificing.
On the question of religious tolerance, a little history would be helpful I think. I was raised a typical Italian catholic, that is I went to church twice a year: Christmas and Easter. In high school, I became an athiest: ie I decided that I should only believe it what I could see or prove. Sure, many of the stories in the Bible have some historical context to them. There are records describing Jesus and the religion that came about after his death. This didn't make him a Divine being. My views on tolerance, liberalism, personal freedom, etc were all shaped during this time period. While my wife and I were dating, I slowly began making my journey back to the Church. It started with going to Mass with her and just sitting. I eventually came to believe again, mostly because it made sense to me. Not necesarlily Catholicism specifically, but being a Christian. I was familiar with the Catholic faith from growing up in it so that is why I am what I am. However, my wife grew up with a Baptist father and Catholic mother. We attended services at her dad's church from time to time and that's how I came to realize that these people were just as spiritual as any Catholic I've known. We differed primarily on rules, not on faith. I will say that there are religions that purport to be "Christian" that I believe are not. I think they take portions of the Bible and distort them and mess up people's lives.
Now to my point. I believe that Christianity is the correct path to eternal life. However, I don't think it is my role to personally convert every person that I meet. One of the themes during this season of Lent is being a light to the world. That's really how I see my role. Christ welcomed all to follow him gently, by setting a good example to follow and then patiently waiting. He didn't go to conquer the world by force. That's what I try to do. I'm trying to live my faith and be an example for others. Perhaps someone will turn to Christ because of something I've said or done. That would be great. Perhaps not. Not a problem. I've turned over my music to Christ for this reason. Primarily to give back to the Lord the gifts He's given me. However, music played a role in my return to Christ so perhaps my music can help someone else. At least, my example has shown one person that not all Christians are fanatics, so that's something.
As for the my CD project, I admit, it can all be written off as coincidense. The struggles with my band were mostly just trying to get 3 people together in the studion on the same day. Life intrudes and it's hard to get things done sometimes. However, now that I've made the decision to go the route I have, it's kind of taken a life of its own. The songs are becoming much more that I originally envisioned. I've had so much insiration on this project. I attribute it to the Lord working through my music. Maybe it isn't, but I really think it is. I may still finish the songs with my band. But I need to get this done first.
On God and common sense: Believing in God does not mean suspending belief in the real world. One of the teachings of the church (I may have mentioned this earlier) is that science actually confirms the work of God. If we assume that God created the universe, then it works by His design. Studying science is simply studying God's design. Contrary to popular belief, the Catholic church actually teaches that evolution is valid scientific evidence. What the Church teaches is that at some point in the evolutionary process, God placed a "soul" in man and made us aware in our current form. Granted, you cannot prove this scientifically, but after all, isn't the study of the spirit of man the province of religion? Being religious doesn't mean supension of rationality. There is the element of faith in religion, the belief that something you cannot prove is true. And what of it? What in science actually contradicts the Bible? The two things science cannot prove is where all matter in the universe came from and what happens to us after we die. These are not observable phenomenon and cannot be inferred or extrapolated using mathematical models. Does this mean all science is wrong? Certainly not. Again, believing in God does not mean hanging up your brain at the door and letting the Bible or a minister think for you. God gave us the ability to think for ourselves for a reason.
On a final note, you mentioned that you hope I'm the good person that my being a good person is independant of God. I don't think that's true. Back in the days when I was toying with atheism, I didn't have as ethical a character as I do now. This is not to say that atheism made me unethical. What I'm saying is that the person I was then cared more for myself than other people. It may have been youth, it may have been a need to be outrageous, whatever. I know that I had less respect for other's feelings back then. I certainly wouldn't go out of my way to help others. Returning to the Church helped me refine my moral code and my ethics. It made me look critically at myself and try and improve the kind of person I was. Would I have done that anyway? Perhaps. I don't know. All I know is that being a Christian has made a difference for me. I also don't think I would have taught my children the values they have if not for being a Christian. So for me anyway, it's made a positive impact on my life.
We all need to understand each other better in order to get along. News reports from those parts of the world that are full of hate because of peoples differences (Muslim vs Jew/Christian, black vs white, Serb vs Bosnian, whatever) always depress me. We spend so much time hating each other instead of just trying to live together. If I could teach my children anything is not to hate someone because they're different. We are all part of the same human family. God teaches us to love our neighbor as we love ourselves and it always confuses me why we can't.
The first issue brought up was concerning prayer. I understand there are some versions of Chritianity that believe in healing only through prayer, to the point of withholding life saving procedures/medicines. I feel sorry for those that do believe this. They are taking some passages from the Old Testement far to literally and needlessly endangering themselves and thier family. I find the Old Testement difficult at times in that some of the passages, especially when it comes to rules and regulations, really were meant for a specific time and people. They discuss some pretty detailed things down to how many animals you must compensate someone for killing their bull, etc. Getting to the meaning behind the rules instead of blindly following them is difficult. But that's another discussion. The official Catholic position is that prayer is in addition to, not a supplement for, modern living. In other words, there is no prohibition to living in the world and making oneself available to modern conveniences, including medicine. There are ethical issues to struggle with, cloning, abortion, euthenasia, etc. The Catholic Church teaches that life is to be respected and all of your actions should be consistant with a respect for life. There is no need to sacrifice just for the sake of sacrificing.
On the question of religious tolerance, a little history would be helpful I think. I was raised a typical Italian catholic, that is I went to church twice a year: Christmas and Easter. In high school, I became an athiest: ie I decided that I should only believe it what I could see or prove. Sure, many of the stories in the Bible have some historical context to them. There are records describing Jesus and the religion that came about after his death. This didn't make him a Divine being. My views on tolerance, liberalism, personal freedom, etc were all shaped during this time period. While my wife and I were dating, I slowly began making my journey back to the Church. It started with going to Mass with her and just sitting. I eventually came to believe again, mostly because it made sense to me. Not necesarlily Catholicism specifically, but being a Christian. I was familiar with the Catholic faith from growing up in it so that is why I am what I am. However, my wife grew up with a Baptist father and Catholic mother. We attended services at her dad's church from time to time and that's how I came to realize that these people were just as spiritual as any Catholic I've known. We differed primarily on rules, not on faith. I will say that there are religions that purport to be "Christian" that I believe are not. I think they take portions of the Bible and distort them and mess up people's lives.
Now to my point. I believe that Christianity is the correct path to eternal life. However, I don't think it is my role to personally convert every person that I meet. One of the themes during this season of Lent is being a light to the world. That's really how I see my role. Christ welcomed all to follow him gently, by setting a good example to follow and then patiently waiting. He didn't go to conquer the world by force. That's what I try to do. I'm trying to live my faith and be an example for others. Perhaps someone will turn to Christ because of something I've said or done. That would be great. Perhaps not. Not a problem. I've turned over my music to Christ for this reason. Primarily to give back to the Lord the gifts He's given me. However, music played a role in my return to Christ so perhaps my music can help someone else. At least, my example has shown one person that not all Christians are fanatics, so that's something.
As for the my CD project, I admit, it can all be written off as coincidense. The struggles with my band were mostly just trying to get 3 people together in the studion on the same day. Life intrudes and it's hard to get things done sometimes. However, now that I've made the decision to go the route I have, it's kind of taken a life of its own. The songs are becoming much more that I originally envisioned. I've had so much insiration on this project. I attribute it to the Lord working through my music. Maybe it isn't, but I really think it is. I may still finish the songs with my band. But I need to get this done first.
On God and common sense: Believing in God does not mean suspending belief in the real world. One of the teachings of the church (I may have mentioned this earlier) is that science actually confirms the work of God. If we assume that God created the universe, then it works by His design. Studying science is simply studying God's design. Contrary to popular belief, the Catholic church actually teaches that evolution is valid scientific evidence. What the Church teaches is that at some point in the evolutionary process, God placed a "soul" in man and made us aware in our current form. Granted, you cannot prove this scientifically, but after all, isn't the study of the spirit of man the province of religion? Being religious doesn't mean supension of rationality. There is the element of faith in religion, the belief that something you cannot prove is true. And what of it? What in science actually contradicts the Bible? The two things science cannot prove is where all matter in the universe came from and what happens to us after we die. These are not observable phenomenon and cannot be inferred or extrapolated using mathematical models. Does this mean all science is wrong? Certainly not. Again, believing in God does not mean hanging up your brain at the door and letting the Bible or a minister think for you. God gave us the ability to think for ourselves for a reason.
On a final note, you mentioned that you hope I'm the good person that my being a good person is independant of God. I don't think that's true. Back in the days when I was toying with atheism, I didn't have as ethical a character as I do now. This is not to say that atheism made me unethical. What I'm saying is that the person I was then cared more for myself than other people. It may have been youth, it may have been a need to be outrageous, whatever. I know that I had less respect for other's feelings back then. I certainly wouldn't go out of my way to help others. Returning to the Church helped me refine my moral code and my ethics. It made me look critically at myself and try and improve the kind of person I was. Would I have done that anyway? Perhaps. I don't know. All I know is that being a Christian has made a difference for me. I also don't think I would have taught my children the values they have if not for being a Christian. So for me anyway, it's made a positive impact on my life.
We all need to understand each other better in order to get along. News reports from those parts of the world that are full of hate because of peoples differences (Muslim vs Jew/Christian, black vs white, Serb vs Bosnian, whatever) always depress me. We spend so much time hating each other instead of just trying to live together. If I could teach my children anything is not to hate someone because they're different. We are all part of the same human family. God teaches us to love our neighbor as we love ourselves and it always confuses me why we can't.
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